Morning
Wow. So many comments on Tuesday's post about nudity in the Men's locker rooms and showers at local gyms. And so many excellent points, from agism to fear of cell phone cameras. The agism thing has been around for...well, ages; it will never cease. As for cell phone cameras, personally? Go ahead, what do I care? As a male, I have exactly what I should have and --- what a surprise! --- it pretty much looks like every other circumcised cock I've ever seen.
Plus, as Jean pointed out, when I was a kid, we swam naked all the time in rivers, ponds, lakes, and at the Y (where clothing was prohibited in the pool). PE began in 6th grade and we had to change into jock straps, and we had to shower after class. No exceptions, no excuses. Then came the military barracks with gang showers. Add that clothes were prohibited in the pool and jazuzzi at the base gym, as it was at the gym I belonged to when I got out of the service. We have one place left in town that doesn't have a pool but does have both a jacuzzi and a cold plunge --- clothing not permitted. Men and women share the pools, jacuzzis, saunas, and steam rooms in the regular gyms.
The 24-hour news cycle brought stories of all kinds of horrific crimes, adding to the fears and creating more and more Helicopter parents.
I have to agree with the assessment of a few readers that naked selfies abound among guys of all ages, and there are tons of younger dudes on OF, etc
So, what is the issue, really? Someone is going to look?
Everyone looks. Gay, straight, bi...doesn't matter. Even women look. It's normal, natural curiosity. When guys take more than a quick glance at mine, it's because my balls are so small due to really bad mumps and a case of scarlet fever. Some are even brave enough to ask what happened.
Further thoughts?
25 comments:
What a good post!
I didn't think about the privacy issue. I would find myself having reservations about being nude when some clueless moron wants to pan his phone camera around a locker room without asking for consent first. THAT reminded me of when I was gainfully and corporately employed, and that specter stopped me from going to a clothing optional resort in Key West after the owners could not guarantee a level of privacy. I did not want my naked body to show up on some social media news feed. I personally witnessed how NASTY queens in that corporation would get with such information.
Of course, today with the perv Meta Glasses, all bets are off, and being retired, fuck it. Whatever.
At the beginning of swim class, the guys, all naked, were waiting for coach to open the door to the pool and make sure it was empty. The door was in the showers and as coach walked in some of the guys were cutting up and laughing. Coach asked, "What's so funny"? and someone said, "Izzy popped a boner". Coach immediately told everyone to go back and get dressed and meet in the health classroom. We did as we were told and coach came in closed the door. He asked for a show of hands from everyone who had ever "popped a boner". Everyone slowly raised their hand. He then asked if anyone thought it was funny to "pop a boner" and a couple of hands went up. He asked if he "popped a boner" would anyone laugh? No one dared to raise a hand. "So, what made Izzy's boner so funny? Silence. Then for the rest of the period he very frankly explained to everyone what our Dad's should have explained. I will never forget that hour and what a difference it made for all that heard it. No one ever discussed that lecture but everyone benefited from it. We all had a new attitude. Just imagine if a coach had that discussion today?
Boy you must have a progressive gym that allows both sexes in the sauna and jacuzzi. To my knowledge around here the two sexes are kept separated if it's a no clothing rule.
A gym is a public place. And it is a business.
A gym can have its own policy in what concerns clothing, and patrons should adhere to that policy. It's very simple. If people prefer to go around naked in their gym, they should ask before signing up.
XOXO
As a DOM (Dirty Old Man) I have to wonder-- do young men have buddies they've shared Very Personal Experiences with? Or are they totally naive?
Has their education included cautions about letting anyone see them naked? Can't be seen naked except by your future 'life partner?'
Have warnings about the dangers of venereal diseases (STDs for younger guys; STIs for even younger guys) scared them so much that they believe they can be transmitted with just a look?
I think those last 2 guys, poking at each other's personal equipment, seem to have accepted nudity in front of others without getting bent out of shape.
Viva la différence. We are all different. Of course everybody is curious, we should be. I agree reading the other comments was an eye-opener, How could I forget about iPhones!
Hugs and bisous.
Read through lots of the comments and then stopped. One thing that IS great about naked in the locker or shower room, male bonding, which feels good. Looking and seeing we are the same (with variations) and that feels good.
FWIW, I helped three guys change a flat tire yesterday. They kept their shirts in the car. Reasonably attractive, though I didn't hit on them. In fact, it was only later that I realized how rebellious they were.
Agree, everyone looks. Americans/Canadians are too hung up on nudity.
They now require clothing unless they have separate facilities.
What a great coach he was. He did exactly the right thing. You all were VERY lucky to have had him.
Even when I was still gainfully employed, I didn't care who saw me naked or if anyone took photos of me in the nude. Nothing sexual was happening, so there wasn't anything a company could do about it. When I returned from my trip that included the nude beach and the nude cruise, I actually told them all about it!
"If people prefer to go around naked in their gym, they should ask before signing up"
This goes both ways. If people prefer that other men not be naked in the gym locker room, they should ask before signing up. That's not what happened in this situation.
The problem with cell-phone cameras in the locker-shower room is when there are kids in there. I use the community rec center and there are always little kids - some naked while changing and showering - and their dad isn't always there. If there's some jackass looking through his cell-phone, I call him out on it.
And remember a selfie up-loaded to the interweb was done so by the author.
And I keep going here, regarding comments - kids say the funniest things in the locker-shower room. One of my favorites was asking his dad "what's that thing on his butt?" (my athletic supporter) to which dad replied "that's to protect his treasure" (probably relating the family jewels to treasure like in a pirate movie.)
And guys commented on my huge scar right above and right of my cock which was very visible after my hernia repair or asking me if I'm a farmer because of the sharp tan lines on my arms and thighs (no, I'm a road cyclist). Although I think it would be way gnarly to be a farmer. And the time two boys approached me whilst showering, patted their heads, and held out their hands obviously needing some shampoo. I obliged!
Or vote their your dollars. If a gym is institutionalizing sexual identity or even homophobia take your business elsewhere.
My gym coach said on our first day of showers as a class of middle school kids, ‘We all get what we got and sometimes it is smaller or larger than we want. Don’t touch it because it doesn’t help, just get dressed and go on your way.”
When kids are involved, this seems to be more about the terror that that it will encourage pedophile behaviour by making appealing voyeuristic content more available. In my opinion, pedophilia is another diversity, similar to homosexuality, except it involves children which triggers the maternal/paternal protective instinct that overrides other concerns. Considering how homosexuality was so vilified in the past, including fears it would turn children gay and then you add the emotional aspect of children to pedophilia and you can see why the reaction is so violent against pedophilia. However, I think banning all images of naked children to "starve" pedophilia will not erase its existence, only drive it further underground and is actually counterproductive. I believe society needs to come to terms with the presence of pedophilia and provide them with a life that is as full as possible without allowing them to physically molest or otherwise interfere with actual children. I don't believe it is their fault, just like homosexuality is not the fault of homosexuals. That means encouraging pedophiles to hand themselves in so that society can both protect its children and give them a protected life away from children. I think AI and deep fakes will satisfy pedophiles whilst not harming real children as the best outcome, likely to be easier to produce and doing the actual child abusers out of a job.
I think children in particular are more surprised and curious, than shocked and it seems appropriate to encourage questions and answers rather than allow their surprise and curiosity to be dismissed or suppressed and turn into confused trauma.
When I was a lad I hadn't heard a whisper about sex, so when I heard my parents having sex and I thought my Dad was killing my Mom, so I called out and my Mom came and told me that everything was alright. However, I was confused since there was no explanation and the reassurance didn't satisfy, so I developed conflicted trauma over it that took a long time to resolve, even after I understood what was happening.
As a young lad at school, I was in the boys toilets and a few of the boys were playing around, with one pulling his penis across his testicles and backwards to create what looked like labia and then pronouncing he was a girl. I was intrigued because at that point I was completely naive about the whole arena of sexuality and physical differences. Then a teacher walked in and hauled us all to the principals office where we were threatened with the cane if we misbehaved again (even though I was just an inadvertent witness). That was one of the beginnings of fear and anxiety related to sexuality and justice in my life.
Instead of education about what we would all too soon be experiencing ourselves and developing a camaraderie and acceptance of "all boys together", there was suppression, punishment and re-inventing the wheel through trial and error, with its attendant traumas and consequent PTSD. I'm not sure things have changed all that much over the years with prudery still hanging on and possibly increasing.
It seems that over 2 days of comment posting a number of things seem clear. Many seem to be wistfully recalling their own experiences in high school gym change rooms or elsewhere. And obviously as gay men, nudity isn't an issue. But there seems also to be a sense that the actions about nudity today are part of a larger issue on queer identity in the age of Trumpism.
I don't know very many homosexual men, but those I do know would never consider changing clothes or showering at the gym. My own room-mate wears swim trunks in both the hot tub and the sauna and they're in a spa building beside the house! I think nudity for homosexual men is a hang-up like it is for many heterosexual men.
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