"Can we at least talk about issues of consent and undue influence?"
Absolutely. Consent is important in any situation regardless of the ages or orientations of the participants. In that situation the OP wrote that his sons invited him to join them, and that his own father invited him to join in. In both cases it was consensual. In neither case was there any touching or lending of hands. That would really require consent.
Even the J/O groups around the world require consent to touch another person.
Undue influence is a little bit tougher to quantify. If the other person(s) express any kind of reluctance but they are pressured in any manner - it's undue influence.
It's been said before that there are a myriad of ways for a father to introduce masturbation as normal and natural to his sons, and I totally agree. Like the Dad and 2Rs that used to comment here upon occasion (where are you guys?), he saved them from an abusive, overly religious mother after she caught them jacking off with friends. He assured them they'd done nothing wrong, that it was natural and normal and healthy. He gave them access to internet sites. And above all he assured them they could come to him and ask him anything.
20 comments:
All my father ever told me was masturbation was normal and that was the extent. It was my best friend's father and my dad's friend that actually showed me how to jack off and it was consensual. Of course we ended up having a lot of oral sex to the dismay of my best friend. Man.. if the neighborhood would have known what was going on that would have been a mess, let alone my father probably would have killed his friend.
A dazzling selection of photos!
THANKS.
For the rest, you have said everything, and I can only approve.
XOXO, my loves Jean and Pat.
have a glorious day
Sorry. This is too much like kiddie porn for me. So long -
Well said. Consent goes beyond family relations, of course. I remember the awkwardness of having a new roommate in my first year of university. He was braver than I was, and when suffering blue balls at night said to me, "I know you're still awake. I was trying to wait until you fell asleep, but I really need to jerk off. Is that OK?"
And it gave us both permission to do what we both needed to do when we needed relief. We never jerked together, but sometimes hearing him going at it at night got me all revved up and ready to go.
I was 14 when my dad and I started jerking off together, and believe me, he did NOT have to induce me against my will. At 16, we started doing it mutually. Again, NO "undue influence" on his part.
@ stache - nothing of the sort is intended or even inferred.
My father never said anything about masterbating. I learned it from an older cousin. When I came for the first time I thought I broke it and didn't know what to do. Did not have an older brother to talk to. Maybe that is why I enjoy intergenerational interaction.
It is always about getting the parents involved. And certainly for boys, their fathers if possible. Society has sure done a number on its citizens. We are holed up in AC these days like the temp was in the teens instead of the 90's. Hugs and bisous.
WHAT?!?!?! I don't see where the commentor is coming from either.?
My generation... in the midwest. No one admitted to masturbation. It was a sin. I was totally convinced I was going to hell until I was 27. Oddly, it was my understanding of death which altered my views on homosexuality and masturbation... well, all sex, really. All those years of complex, conflicting ideas and emotions... small wonder I was such an odd bird. Such an ugly duckling.
My father walked in on me when I was playing with my dick.....I was 14. He left and then returned with 2 Playboy mags. He got naked sitting across from me and started jerking off, about 30 minutes later he shot his load. He then talked to me about sex for over an hour, both of us still naked and me of course rock hard. From then on we masturbated together until his death, in my late 20's. I treasure those memories!
This is a very popular fantasy for many guys. While I had no desire to have any sexual contact with my Dad, I was always curious about him and his dick. He was very closed off so I didn't see him naked until he was older and needed my help with things and it was very odd for me. I have friends whose dads were very open and nudity was never an issue. I think STACHE was being a little sensitive to this for some reason so if he needs to go, let it go but we never know someone's journey or why we react to certain things. If the picture of a young man looks too young, I just scroll past it because it just doesn't interest me at all. I like MEN ;). Love your blog. Have a great day.
I guess just the legal issues. 11 is definitely when the law says you're too young to have any sexual contact with adults. (Technically, 16~18, depending on state, is the age of consent.)
@ nakedswimmer - Exactly. Any touching before the age of consent would put it into a "statutory" realm.
You always have the best answers.
There must always be consent.
I never really got any counsel from my parents. They asked if I had questions about sex and I said 'no'. I had been having sex with other boys for two years when they asked that so, yeah.
And that Gif from A Single Man? *chills*
XOXO
Consent is a very grey area because of so many potential factors that prevent informed choice or signalling of consent: it's not black and white.
Certain categories, such as children below the age of consent, intoxicated women (although usually not intoxicated men), are deemed unable to give consent full stop, yet it relies on the ability of another person to be able to process consent in an adult way that is completely understood yet not widely educated.
This approach is supposed to protect people by making assumptions about their capacity to provide consent, erring on the side of protection rather than what the individual wishes or their actual capacity for consent rather than assumed.
Laws vary, but it is also sometimes illegal for an adult to expose their body to a young person, even if it is for educational purposes, again because of lack of consent.
It's particularly a problem for young boys who are mature enough to be experiencing sexual development, interest and curiosity but not old enough to be deemed able to give consent to any exploration with a knowledgeable adult or older person.
It's even worse when you consider young boys can learn how to have multiple orgasms before their body is able to ejaculate and this can help them in adult life also achieve multiple orgasms, however it is usually stumbled upon accidentally and thus not universally experienced and consent laws mean Fathers are not permitted to educate them, thus making what should be an option for all boys/men be limited to accidental discovery.
I think in being overly cautious about abuse of youngsters, we are depriving many of useful education that prevents re-inventing the wheel, trial and error (which also can have consequences on others in initial incompetence) or missing a development step, which is abusive itself in my opinion.
Lack of education about sexuality and relationships is a real problem in society. Few men are educated about how to take a woman's virginity in the most comfortable and least traumatic way for her, in advance and so women do often have an unsatisfactory first encounter that I am sure remains with them subconsciously and they are expected to simply accept that.
Society needs to discuss this issue more to ensure we aren't compromising the future because of unnecessary paranoia and failure to educate.
Consent itself is not something that is uniformly practiced: we reach out our hand for a handshake or lean in for a peck on the cheek in greeting, yet we don't obtain consent first and convention often requires we accept or reciprocate even if we don't want to. Spontaneity also comes into it: where done properly, consent destroys spontaneity and is often dropped as a result. So, society is somewhat confused about the application of consent and how much protection of people is necessary.
One would think that the number of Fathers interested in having sex with their young son would be quite small and sociopathically inclined to abuse them as a result, even smaller, versus passing on education.
it is true, but not all parents are open-minded enough
@ Anon, July 19, 2023 at 11:15 PM - "Society needs to discuss this issue more to ensure we aren't compromising the future because of unnecessary paranoia and failure to educate."
That is the key sentence and the crux of this post.
First day at the gym with dad my first thought using public showers was to keep the swimming trunks on, he asked me with I was missing a ball and pulled his trunks down and I did the same.
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